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Welcome to America's Town Meeting from New York City.

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Tonight's subject, Flying Saucers, Fact or Illusion.

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Our speakers are Major Donnelly Keough, author of Flying Saucers from Outer Space, and Jonathan

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N. Leonard, science editor of Time Magazine and author of Flight Into Space.

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For scores of generations, civilized men have recorded astonishing descriptions of atmospheric

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phenomena and awesome things hovering in the skies above them.

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Mysterious floating objects, flashes and fireballs, and luminescence manifestations of every description

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are recounted in the annals of western civilization as far back as Roman times.

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Speculation as to their origin was, of course, largely conditioned upon the degree of scientific

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knowledge at the disposal of the observer.

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Generally, however, they were isolated instances, unrelated, and devoid of organized study anywhere.

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Against this historic background, the controversy which has developed in the United States since

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1947 over the so-called Flying Saucers sightings are absolutely without precedent or parallel.

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An oppressive accumulation of approximately 800 unexplained reports has not only been accorded

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the widest possible publicity, intriguing the public everywhere and taxing the credibility

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of many, but has by now enlisted on a national scale the ingenuity of some of our top airmen,

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scientists and military experts.

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Curiously enough, it is said that more than 18 percent of these sightings were reported

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by trained military personnel, and some 11 percent were reported by Air Force pilots

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aloft.

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Of all sightings recorded, somewhat less than 15 percent are reported to be classified

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as unexplained.

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To delve into the mystery of these unexplained phenomena, the resources of the United States

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and other nations have mustered as strategic points scores of special cameras, radar installations,

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and other detected devices, meant by trained personnel.

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Meantime, the controversy rages unabated between those who believe that the so-called

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Flying Saucers are fact and those who dismiss them as an illusion.

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Tonight, Town Hall is proud to present two distinguished exponents of each of these

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viewpoints.

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Our first guest is Major Donald E. Kehoe, author of Flying Saucers from outer space.

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Born in Iowa, Major Kehoe attended the United States Naval Academy and was commissioned

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with the rank of Lieutenant in the U.S. Marine Corps.

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The following year, he finished a training course for naval aviators at Pensacola.

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From 1925 to 1927, he was Chief of Information of the Aeronautics branch of the Department

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of Commerce and was assigned as Manager of the U.S. Tour of the Josephine IV North Pole

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Plain, which flew around the country with Floyd Bennett and Bert Blanchen.

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In 1949, Major Kehoe was assigned to investigate the Flying Saucer mystery for a true magazine.

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The Flying Saucers are real was his first book on this subject.

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It was followed by Flying Saucers from outer space, published in November of this year.

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Town Hall is proud to welcome Major Kehoe.

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In 1948, like many other pilots, I scoffed at the Saucer reports.

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Now after a five-year investigation, I believe they are real.

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But there's only one way to decide this question fairly, by examining the official reports.

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Neither my opinion nor Mr. Leonard says any value unless it is backed by the evidence.

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In the last five years, I've seen hundreds of Air Force reports covering worldwide sightings.

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The official records cleared for me have included the most baffling cases and intelligence files,

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cases used in the secret briefing of high government officials.

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Intelligence reports were made by Air Force Navy, Marine Corps, and airline pilots.

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By expert radar man, guided missile trackers, and other trained observers.

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The official conclusions were released to me by Air Technical Intelligence.

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Since Mr. Leonard cannot be expected to know these hundreds of reports, I shall refer mainly

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to official cases from my book, which he has reviewed.

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I repeat, these are Air Force intelligence reports certified by official documents in

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the book.

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They are not from anonymous sources as Mr. Leonard mistakenly stated.

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These sightings were analyzed by intelligence officers or by scientists under secret contracts.

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In case after case, pilots and radar men insist that the outbanks maneuver under intelligent

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control, often at fantastic speeds.

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In the last two months, reports have rapidly increased.

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As a result, new orders have been given to pilots, which I shall explain later.

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Military governments have also taken new steps.

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In Canada, a special observatory has been set up to track sources and learn their means

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of propulsion.

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Mr. W. B. Smith, the official in charge, with a frankness unknown here, publicly admitted

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that sources are probably from outer space.

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In our Air Force, only one intelligence officer, Colonel William C. O'Dell, has been allowed

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to make such a statement and then, without use of his rank.

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But this conviction is privately shared by many in the Air Force.

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Even the airline pilots, after sighting strange machines, have publicly announced their belief

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that the sources are observation devices from another planet.

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That an advanced race is making a long survey of the Earth, delaying contact until they

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understand every phase of our life and can gauge our probable reactions.

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On the basis of the evidence, I believe this is the answer, fantastic as it may seem.

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Thank you Major Keough.

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Our next guest is Jonathan Norton Leonard, science editor of Time Magazine.

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Mr. Leonard joined the weekly news magazine staff as foreign news writer in 1943.

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He became Time Science Editor in 1945.

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Born in Somerville, Massachusetts, he attended public schools there and entered Harvard University

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in 1921.

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Originally, with the New York Times, he became a freelance writer and for the next 10 years

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turned out innumerable books and articles, including the enjoyment of science, crusaders

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of chemistry and his most recent book, Flight into Space, a philosophical but factual view

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of the fact and fancies of spaceflight which was published in October of this year.

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We are proud to welcome Mr. Jonathan Norton to America's town meeting.

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The question, do you believe in flying saucers has come to mean do you believe that flying

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saucers are spaceships from a foreign planet?

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I do not believe it because I have seen no evidence for it.

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All I have seen is reports of strange sights in the sky.

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Most of them have been explained in unsensational ways and most of the rest were so poorly

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reported that no conclusion is possible.

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But even if many unexplained saucers had been seen, they would not necessarily be spaceships.

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To call them spaceships is jumping to an extremely unlikely conclusion.

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It is explaining a small mystery by pinning it on a big mystery.

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The ancient Greeks could not explain lightning, so they gave up and called it a weapon of

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the God Zeus.

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This was no explanation at all.

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The flying saucer cutists are doing the same thing.

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To explain a few puzzling reports, they are dreaming up spaceships and they give them

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a godlike ability to violate all known physical laws.

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The world is full of mysteries and the way to solve them is to observe them and study

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them carefully.

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This is what the Air Force has been doing and it says that it has no evidence that flying

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saucers are spaceships.

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People who say that the Air Force is lying about this and that it is deliberately concealing

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a threatened invasion from space are accusing it of something close to treason.

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I do not think that they are justified.

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Spaceships are not impossible theoretically.

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The human race can build them if it makes the Air Force and there may be races in space

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that have already done so.

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At least I cannot prove that there are not.

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But to say that flying saucers are spaceships, just because a few of their reports are hard

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to explain, is naive and primitive thinking.

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It is like explaining lightning by calling it the weapon of a god.

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Thank you very much, Mr. Limit.

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Major Kehoe, before we go into our exchange of views, and I know they are going to be

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sharp this evening, I was intrigued by the statement which you made in your opening

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presentation.

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I would like to ask if you might not wish to elaborate on it.

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You said that during the last two months reports on unidentified flying objects have rapidly

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increased and then you said that as a result of this new orders have been given to pilots

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and you would explain that later.

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I want to go ahead and explain that to us now.

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Yes, I shall.

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The Air Force, through the Matt's intelligence, that is military air transport intelligence,

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has sent word to all airline pilots and instead of waiting after they sight an unidentified

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object in the air, waiting until they land to write up the report or be interrogated,

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they are immediately to get on the radio and give a running account of what they see.

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This was confirmed to me by the Airline Policy Association and also by Air Force Public Information.

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The same order has been relayed to all military pilots and presumably to those in the Navy

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and the Marine Corps.

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I see. Mr Leonard, do you have any comment to make on that?

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Well, I think it's a fine thing.

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Sure.

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Why not?

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It's a lot of controversy on this thing and Air Force has been accused of concealing

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evidence.

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It's a very good thing to tell the pilots to report right off.

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But this shows a great deal of concern which the Air Force at the same time disavows.

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It says we're not concerned, there's nothing to it and at the same time they give these

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orders and tell everybody to get in the information as rapidly as possible.

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I don't think they're concerned about spaceships.

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I think they're concerned about the publicity they're getting.

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They're concerned about the objects.

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Well gentlemen, that brings us I think to the very first point which the average American

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would like to have clarified and discussed this evening.

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What are the observers seeing in your opinion?

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Are they seeing something or are they seeing nothing?

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Is it imagination or is it factual that they are seeing something?

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Want me to answer that?

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I think they're seeing something.

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I think that good many of these people are perfectly sincere.

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There are some jokers and liars, some drunks no doubt, but I think good many of them see

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something.

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What they see is another question.

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Do you have your opinion Mr. Lendon as to what they may be actually seeing?

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I think they see a great variety of things.

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I think they see all reflections from the tail pins of aluminum airplane.

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You can see them at a much greater distance than you can see an airplane.

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They see weather balloons.

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I think in the case of the more mystifying reports they see various kinds of optical

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effects.

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Now they aren't optical illusions anymore than a rainbow is.

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A rainbow is an effect, an optical effect.

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It's very real.

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It's so.

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We know how it works.

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There are great many other ways that lights can be apparently displaced and made to move.

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The common mirage of this water in the road is a very common example.

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Every auto owner knows.

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You see the sky apparently in the road.

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That's true of great many other optical effects.

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Major Key, how would you subscribe to that theory?

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No, I'm afraid I can't.

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That might be true in many cases of untrained observers, people who be honestly mistaken.

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When you take hundreds of airline pilots, radar men, weather bureau observers who are

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trained to recognize such things, and for year after year they have been reporting these

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objects, many of which are confirmed by a radar simultaneously, prove that the object

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was real and that was under intelligent control maneuvering.

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Many of the cases, of which I can only mention a few tonight, have so stated that the answer

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was unknown and in the analysis they stated the object seemed to be under intelligent

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control.

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Well, Mr. Leonard, I believe you stated at the outset that you felt that there were only

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a few puzzling reports.

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Now Major, I know that you disagree with that.

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Do you have any idea, however, as to how many reports are puzzling or unsolved so far?

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I don't think there are very many.

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I think there are many reports which are put down by the Air Force as unidentified.

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And they may be, and in most cases are, unidentified because the evidence given is extremely sketchy.

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I heard of one example, for instance, of a man who called up very excitedly and said

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something like this.

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He said, I saw something flying by.

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It looked like a bird, but it was flying a lot faster than any bird ought to fly.

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What was it?

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Well, the Air Force put that down as unexplained and listed the thing as a UFO, I think Major

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Kehoe calls it an unexplained flying object.

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Major Kehoe, do you agree with that?

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Well, I would like to give a report by, let us say, someone a little more trained.

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On October 29th, over in Hempstead, Long Island, two jet pilots were on a mission, spotted

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a very bright white light, and they tried to close in.

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Then the machine, whatever it was, tightened up.

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They were unable to get inside its turn, and finally, after trying to match the machine's

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performance for several minutes, they gave up.

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Now, here's the statement that the senior pilot gave to intelligence.

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Based on my experience in fighter tactics, it is my opinion that the object was controlled

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by something having visual contact with it.

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The power and acceleration were beyond the capability of any known U.S. aircraft.

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Below this, the Wing Intelligence Officer added, it is believed this report is based

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on reliable and verifiable observation.

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That's an official intelligence report.

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How many reports such as that, not to interrupt, Ms. Landon, but how many reports of that type

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do you feel that there are on the books now, Major?

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At least 400.

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I have some of the key cases right here, which prove that the objects are real, that they

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are under control, and that many of the people who saw them are convinced that there was

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some kind of revolutionary machine.

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Ms. Landon, do you feel there's any pattern in these reports that the Major has cited?

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Yes, I think there's a pattern.

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Some of these facts are similar.

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But I'd like to say a little bit about these trained observers.

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The pilot, the airline pilot, or a fighter pilot, is generally a very fine guy.

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Some of my best friends are pilots.

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But he is very rarely a physicist.

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He very rarely understands the effects of refraction.

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I think if you question, you'd find that they know very little about such things.

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And so when you say a trained observer, you mean that he's been trained to recognize

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certain definite things.

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And when he comes up against something which isn't in the book, he often misinterpreted

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very widely.

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And this, I think, is the case in a Major Pioja cited.

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But you do feel that he saw something, however, what he saw was not any kind of a space machine.

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And I think he jumped to the conclusion that it was intelligently controlled.

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It was a very, very long jump.

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Well, speaking of intelligently controlled incidents, I think almost everyone is aware

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of the so-called citing that Washington several months back.

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And I wonder if you would care to discuss that as an example of either accidental or

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perhaps controlled performance.

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Major, would you like to begin a discussion of that?

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Yes, I should.

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00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:28,720
I investigated that for six weeks after the two weekend incidents.

240
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I talked with all of the radar men who were in the control center, with the radar engineer,

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00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:38,520
with Dr. John Hagen, the chief radio astronomer of the Navy, with Bonn-Rochney of the Weather

242
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:43,160
Bureau, their radar expert, with the pilots who cited these things in the air, with the

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radar men at other stations.

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Now, these things were triangulated from three radar stations.

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They were seen simultaneously in the air at exactly the point where the radar sets showed

246
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them.

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They showed the same maneuvers, the same speeds, which were reported visually by observers

248
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in the air and on the ground.

249
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:10,000
And later on, I was told from Air Force Technical Intelligence Center that this principle applied.

250
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They looked the same thing that they added in another similar case.

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The electronic or visual mirage of meteorological phenomenon is out of the question, and the

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radar set was on high beam and both were not occur simultaneously in the same place.

253
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Now, this was ruled out completely, although at the Air Force conference in July, it was

254
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suggested that temperature inversion was probably the answer.

255
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Later on, I asked the Air Force to designate an official spokesman who would give me what

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they considered the answer.

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We went into it, I presented all the evidence, and gave him the temperature inversion on

258
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that night, which was less than one and a half degrees.

259
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This spokesman then told me and allowed me to give it as the official Air Force Force

260
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viewpoint, that with such a low inversion, it was impossible for temperature inversion

261
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to have been the answer, and the case remained unexplained, and it still is.

262
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,520
Elizabeth, how would you explain the Washington site?

263
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:10,120
Well, as Sam said, Dr. Keim, I got a report on that immediately.

264
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:16,080
In fact, I got a telephone report from the inside of the radar station where the observations

265
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:21,160
were being made, and one of our men was there, right on the spot.

266
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I had very great doubts about this.

267
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It seemed to be a very curious, panicky situation going on around these boys.

268
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One thing I did was to ask whether these objects had been seen on radars at a flight distance

269
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from Washington.

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I could find no radar that had seen them, except in the immediate vicinity of Washington.

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Then I also asked about, they called up jets, of course, to come down there and defend the

272
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White House and Congress and the Federal Reserve Bank and other such things from flying saucers.

273
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And the jets came over from Delaware, and they got there pretty soon, and they criss-crossed

274
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all around Washington.

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They found those such things.

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So I decided there wasn't very much to it.

277
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And then when the Air Force later came out with an official statement on the subject

278
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,880
that there wasn't anything much to it, of course Major Keough says that they didn't,

279
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:22,400
but actually they did come out with a statement that this was caused by temperature inversions.

280
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I think they had a lot more information than can be gathered in the newspapers and by talking

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to individuals who, having seen something, are committed to stand by it.

282
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:38,600
Now before there's any more said about official statements to the Air Force, I'd like to read

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part of a letter.

284
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,880
I thought that there would be remarks about the official attitude of the Air Force, so

285
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I called up the Air Force and asked them, this is a letter on the station area of the

286
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,960
Department of the Air Force, Washington, the office of the Secretary.

287
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,480
That's the Secretary of the Air Force, and it's as high as you can get.

288
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:05,480
It's signed by Colonel Max B. Boyd, Chief of Information Division, Office of Public Information.

289
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:10,400
General Smith, Mr. Dimmick Salena, General Smith has told me of your need for a statement

290
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,080
from the Air Force concerning flying saucers.

291
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:18,000
The Air Force position concerning the unexplained aerial phenomena has been restated recently

292
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,240
in the enclosed fact sheet, which I hope will be useful to you.

293
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,720
You may be interested also in another recent Air Force statement which said, after reviewing

294
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,920
its massive reports and presenting the better documented ones to highly competent scientific

295
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:37,680
advisors, the Air Force has found that there is absolutely no proof in these reports that

296
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,320
space travel from another planet is going on.

297
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:46,240
Either of these statements may be attributed to the Air Force or to an Air Force spokesman.

298
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:52,280
Now this is, if I will read on occasion some of the things from that fact sheet.

299
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,200
One of them is about the same sort of thing.

300
00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:01,080
It says that no authentic physical evidence has been received establishing the existence

301
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:02,840
of spaceships from other planets.

302
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:08,560
Well Mr. Lennon, if I may interrupt, is there any evidence or any statement by the Air

303
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:15,360
Force which would deny, for example, that these sightings are sightings of solid objects

304
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:17,960
controlled by intelligent procedure?

305
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:26,840
Well, if you ruled out that the Air Force also rules out that they are their own guided

306
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:33,600
missiles and they rule out that they are also not guided missiles from foreign countries.

307
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:40,520
And if you rule those things out and they still say that they are not in the planetary

308
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:45,160
why they must be something that can be explained in some much simpler way.

309
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:50,080
Well gentlemen, do you feel that there is anything being withheld by the Air Force or

310
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:56,000
the Pentagon films or photographs or secret analyses perhaps which the public has the

311
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,000
right to know?

312
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,000
A major key help.

313
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:07,400
Well in one specific case, the analysis of the motion picture known as the Utah pictures

314
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,120
has been withheld from the public.

315
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:12,520
These pictures were taken in July of 52.

316
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:18,120
They were analyzed for a period of four to six months by the Air Force and the Navy.

317
00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:24,160
And they were also analyzed by civilian experts who were brought into that purpose.

318
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,880
At that time it was decided that the objects could not be explained as any conventional

319
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,880
objects of any kind.

320
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:36,240
They were not aircraft, they were not balloons, they were not reflections from birds wings.

321
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,440
It was decided then by a group that believed that this should be made public, that there

322
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,760
would be a showing of this film to the press in Washington and a public statement would

323
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:45,760
be made.

324
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:52,040
A controversy arose over that which lasted for about two months at which time the planned

325
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:53,920
showing was killed.

326
00:22:53,920 --> 00:23:00,320
I was given a copy of the press release which was to be given out at that time and it stated

327
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,720
emphatically that these were the answers, that they did not have any explanation for

328
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:05,720
them.

329
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,000
The Air Force therefore would not speculate on what they were.

330
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:14,640
But it showed that they were maneuvering at high speeds and that they had been within

331
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:21,000
a five mile distance that could easily have been identified as aircraft or balloons.

332
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:27,000
Later on, about six weeks ago, I inquired the Air Force if they had any new answer.

333
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:31,960
And I was told by the Air Force press desk, by an official on the desk that there was

334
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:36,280
now a suggestion that they might have been migratory birds in spite of the fact that

335
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:41,040
in this analysis which has not been released to the public, it says they could not be reflections

336
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:46,960
from birds because their flight source was too intense and no bird's wing could be that

337
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:47,960
reflective.

338
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,800
I have that statement here tonight and I'd be glad to short to Mr. Leonard or anyone

339
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:52,800
else.

340
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,600
Statements seem to be a little bit confused.

341
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,240
Now here's the latest from the Air Force.

342
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:02,440
There have been some misconceptions concerning Air Force handling or flying saucer reports.

343
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,440
One of these misconceptions is that the Air Force is either withholding flying saucer

344
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:11,160
information from the public or cloaking it beneath a security classification.

345
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,160
This is untrue.

346
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:22,320
And they also say that they have been very, let's see, they have only a very few movie

347
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:27,200
type films have been received by the Air Force and they reveal only 10 points of light moving

348
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,160
across the sky.

349
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,600
The Air Force has been unable to identify the source of these lights.

350
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,720
Images are too small to analyze properly.

351
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,160
They don't know what they are.

352
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,560
And I think that's a great many cases we don't know.

353
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:48,200
But the thing that I object to is the vast jump from lack of knowledge to a dogmatic

354
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,680
statement that these things are spaceships.

355
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:55,520
Well, Mr. Leonard, before I go into that, I would like to read one thing here to show

356
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,320
that someone is not stating the truth.

357
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,800
And I would like to have it brought up.

358
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:06,840
I have invited the Air Force to put me back on active duty and have me court-martial for

359
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:13,080
falsifying the Air Force documents if they can prove that anything I said about official

360
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,640
sightings or the Utah pictures is false.

361
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,000
And I repeat that here and now.

362
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,000
I have it.

363
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,560
I have documents here which prove it.

364
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,440
I have proof from the former head of Project Blue Book who cleared all of these documents

365
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,040
from me at right field.

366
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,760
I have a statement here by the official who gave them to me at the Pentagon who was assigned

367
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:32,920
to do that.

368
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,480
I can prove that every case in that book that I say is from the Air Force is an official

369
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,360
sighting case that the pictures were taken.

370
00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:44,240
They were analyzed and the analysis has not been released.

371
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,200
And still they deny that they have ever had any evidence whatsoever that these things

372
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,200
are from space.

373
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:50,200
That's right.

374
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,200
That's two weeks ago.

375
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:52,200
That's right.

376
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,720
Here is what they told me repeatedly.

377
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,000
We have no concrete evidence.

378
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:03,320
Now Mr. Finletter, the former secretary of the Air Force, said when he was briefed by

379
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:11,080
intelligence officers in 1952 after a series of sightings, he said, there is no evidence

380
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,920
yet, no concrete evidence to prove or disprove the existence of flying saucers.

381
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:20,680
However, since we cannot explain a number of the sightings, the Air Force will continue

382
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:21,680
its investigation.

383
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,800
He said nothing about spaceships.

384
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:29,520
No, but in many of these sightings, which I can't read here, but some of them are in

385
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,760
the book and any that you wish to know, I'll be glad to show it to you.

386
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,240
They're from very junior officers.

387
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:40,800
The speeds have been computed and confirmed by radar and intelligence certifies that the

388
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,280
speeds were measured at speeds of thousands of miles an hour, that the objects were solid.

389
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,400
They don't certify any such thing major.

390
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,400
I think they're fine.

391
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:49,760
No, they don't.

392
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:54,520
These things have been analyzed by higher sources, higher groups in the Air Force, and

393
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,760
that conclusion is just what I read to you.

394
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,120
Well gentlemen, we'll return to that in just a moment.

395
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:06,000
I've seen everywhere from the North Pole up to Greenland, Alaska, and in every country

396
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,480
that we know of, except behind the Iron Curtain, and there have been very few cases, but a

397
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,080
few from that area.

398
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:18,880
In this country, they have been seen more frequently around Air Force bases and occasionally

399
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:19,920
atomic installations.

400
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,800
Now that may be because there is more observation there, but it still remains the fact that

401
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,760
they've been seen there more frequently, and that is where the Air Force has placed the

402
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:36,320
75 new grid cameras, which they have distributed around the country and spawned bases abroad

403
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,840
to get pictures of these objects and try to resolve the light source.

404
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,000
We've checked today, those cameras have seen nothing.

405
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,760
Mr. Leonard, what is your answer to the...

406
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:50,800
My answer is that the sources are most frequently seen in places where people have read the

407
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,400
most about flying saucers.

408
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,640
They've also been seen in places where they've had no flying saucer reports at all.

409
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,000
They've been seen in Africa, or far east, or near east, by Chinese who can't even read

410
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,000
their own language.

411
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:08,800
They've been seen all over the world in places where there's no communication about flying

412
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,560
saucer books, articles, or news sites.

413
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:15,200
They've been seen in ancient times, but they call them dragons and witches.

414
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:20,200
If the Air Force were convinced that what they're telling the public is true, why are

415
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,720
they spending money and a lot of money to investigate this?

416
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:30,680
Why have they scrambled jets at least 400 times in the past four years to chase unidentified

417
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:31,680
objects?

418
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:37,720
There is a standing order that any time the existence of a UFO is established on a radar

419
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,920
filter, jets must be ordered aloft to try to intercept it.

420
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:43,920
But I think that's a very reasonable thing to do.

421
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,400
Why don't they write it all?

422
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,920
If the Air Force really believe what they're saying, why are they going to all this trouble?

423
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,800
Is there anything, if I may interrupt, is there anything which has occurred lately,

424
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,760
or any recent theft taken by the Air Force to show that they are now more concerned,

425
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,440
perhaps before, or then they officially admitted about unidentified flying objects?

426
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:06,440
Anything specific?

427
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:12,560
I think not, and I think this letter I read to you is that they did December 15th and

428
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,840
is from the Secretary of the Air Force.

429
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,840
Well, we will continue with our discussion in just a moment.

430
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:22,680
Gentlemen, now we have come to the most intriguing portion of America's town meeting, where we

431
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,240
entertain questions from the audience directed to both of you.

432
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,280
I would like to recognize that the outset, the gentleman on my left, for whom is your

433
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:31,280
question intended?

434
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,480
I would like to address my question to Major Kehoe.

435
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,600
Major Kehoe, I would like to review your question.

436
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:46,000
How possible is it for the flying saucer or the thing seen to be pilotless and to be

437
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,040
controlled from the ground by the U.S. or some foreign power?

438
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:56,240
Well, if such a device existed which had those speeds and capabilities, it could be

439
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,960
guided by remote control just as we guide our drones or pilotless bombers.

440
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,720
Next question, please.

441
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:05,720
This is Mr. Leonard.

442
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,920
Would you tell us who you are, please, and where you're from?

443
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,920
My name is Paul Matthews.

444
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:18,400
Mr. Leonard, don't you think that the Air Force may not wish to create panic, and that

445
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:26,960
is why they're withholding the information that they may have, and also that they may

446
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,480
have discovered that these visitors are not after all hostile or are out to attack us in

447
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:32,480
any way?

448
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,680
Well, there's really two questions.

449
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,720
I think the first one about they're not wanted to create panic, I think if they're proceeding

450
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:44,160
in that way, they're being very, very remiss in their duty.

451
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:49,000
They're supposed, the Air Force is supposed to protect us and not to allow us to live

452
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,000
in a fool's paradise.

453
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,920
And I think that if anyone in the Air Force tried to do that, the higher levels of the

454
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:01,160
government, the president, the secretary of defense would immediately stop them because

455
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,960
it would be the worst way to get us in trouble.

456
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,080
And this question of having made contact with them and decided they're not hostile, I think

457
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,800
in that case, I think they'd be delighted to tell us all about it.

458
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,400
May I have the next question, please?

459
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,280
The lady on my right.

460
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,080
My question is that they've addressed a major keel.

461
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,480
Would you tell us who you are, please?

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My name is Eunice Spord and I'm from Detroit.

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My question is, is there a possibility, major keel, that another planet might be trying

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to contact the Earth?

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Well, I think that is part of the answer.

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I of course know, there's no way of knowing which one it might be.

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It's possible it might be within our own solar system.

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Perhaps the Mars committee, which has now been established to watch Mars as it nears

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the Earth, may find some evidence during the coming year.